Facing “financial crisis,” Russia on pace for lowest launch total in 6 decades
- Thread starter JournalBot
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I don't think China really wants to help Russia. It seems like an opportunity for China to fill in some blanks in their uderstanding and later move on better off.
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Russia is one of the few allies they have left, but even China is tired of Russia's war in Ucraine.
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I would suggest a Mexican or TexMex themed restaurant during happy hour.
Oh, you mean the rocket? Yeah, not happening.
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Clearly what would be best for Roscosmos is to lose a war with the USA and then reincorporate. It worked for Volkswagon...
Alternatively, I'd be curious to see which Russian aerospace engineers are studying English vs Chinese.
Alternatively, I'd be curious to see which Russian aerospace engineers are studying English vs Chinese.
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It's about more than just the war. China now has a quite competent space program and the budget to do things right without needing anyone's help. If you're China, and poor Russia is begging for a ride-along after their own ancient hardware started malfunctioning and leaking on the ISS for the third time in one year, isn't your first thought "Do we even want to let those guys touch our equipment?"
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After or before China quietly
Oh, I am pretty sure the Chinese might still graciously allow one or two token "cosmonauts" onto the Chinese space station for a "cooperation" trip. IF the Russians kowtow low enough, and put a Chinese flag on their flight uniforms right next to theirs, that is.
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Russia is very much a secondary partner in that relationship. They will be along for the ride, for propaganda purposes.
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Statistical
Ars Legatus Legionis
Russia never deserved to be considered a peer to the US on the ISS. That was a once in history gift for various geopolitical reasons. One that Russia squandered. It will never happen again. I don't mean it is a longshot or it will take a long time it will never happen.
Even if someday Russia becomes "normal" and rejoins the world community it will just be one of many nations of some future space project. The days of anyone placating them by pretending their are comparable to a superpower are forever gone.
The last shoe to drop for the Russian space program is the end of the ISS in 2030. Right now there is too much need to save face and pretend they are a superpower to drop missions to the ISS. They have downsized it as much as possible but baring a disaster which prevents them going to space they will continue as long as there is an ISS. Once that is gone why would a nation making less than six rocket launches a year have a HSF program? Russia can barely afford keeping the ISS manned by just building more of the long proven Soyuz rocket and Soyuz/Progress spacecrafts. The bootstrap costs involved in doing something new would be huge. What are they going to do just launch Soyuz into space for a brief mission and go nowhere?
Russia may get to visit the Chinese space station but it will be clear it is the Chinese space station and the Russians are the visitors not a partner certainly not an equal peer. If they do visit it will be using a Chinese spacecraft under the command of a Chinese astronaut launching on a Chinese booster at a launch facility in China under the oversight of the Chinese space program if and when allowed by the Chinese government. China put their station in an inclination to low for Russia launch vehicles to reach it. That killed any chance of them having a significant role in space post 2030.
Even if someday Russia becomes "normal" and rejoins the world community it will just be one of many nations of some future space project. The days of anyone placating them by pretending their are comparable to a superpower are forever gone.
The last shoe to drop for the Russian space program is the end of the ISS in 2030. Right now there is too much need to save face and pretend they are a superpower to drop missions to the ISS. They have downsized it as much as possible but baring a disaster which prevents them going to space they will continue as long as there is an ISS. Once that is gone why would a nation making less than six rocket launches a year have a HSF program? Russia can barely afford keeping the ISS manned by just building more of the long proven Soyuz rocket and Soyuz/Progress spacecrafts. The bootstrap costs involved in doing something new would be huge. What are they going to do just launch Soyuz into space for a brief mission and go nowhere?
Russia may get to visit the Chinese space station but it will be clear it is the Chinese space station and the Russians are the visitors not a partner certainly not an equal peer. If they do visit it will be using a Chinese spacecraft under the command of a Chinese astronaut launching on a Chinese booster at a launch facility in China under the oversight of the Chinese space program if and when allowed by the Chinese government. China put their station in an inclination to low for Russia launch vehicles to reach it. That killed any chance of them having a significant role in space post 2030.
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Pretty well written article for a known war criminal..
Be careful what park benches you sit on and where you buy your tea.
/s for the humour impaired
In all seriousness, how the hell are they building more Soyuz and Progress? there is not a snowballs chance in hell that the electronics systems in those things are 100% russian electronics:
Is there some 'blind eye turning' to sanctions?
Be careful what park benches you sit on and where you buy your tea.
/s for the humour impaired
In all seriousness, how the hell are they building more Soyuz and Progress? there is not a snowballs chance in hell that the electronics systems in those things are 100% russian electronics:
Is there some 'blind eye turning' to sanctions?
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Crying Croc
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Not even three years, China and Russia have gone from partnership without limits to Chinese banks refusing to process Russian payments.
Edit to clarify links.
Edit to clarify links.
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I think China already has everything useful from Russia. All that remains to be seen is if Russia is able to sustain a military launch capacity on their own or if they’ll become geopolitically dependent on China for launches.
Before Ukraine went into Russia it looked like they planned to just fight themselves to exhaustion, then stop and say this is the new border. Now with Russian territory under occupation it feels like a «I’m not locked in a room with you, you’re locked in a room with me» move where Ukraine is saying it’s not over until we say it’s over.
Russia’s going to have to make some hard priorities soon, not sure the space program will make the cut…
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I do find it interesting that those interviews were given and published at all -- things must be really bad behind the scenes if they're willing to publicly say anything beyond varations of "We've had some minor setbacks, but everything is fine."
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China is looking to be the center of the "not-the USA" axis of geopolitics. secondary or not, there just aren't that many developed economies that would choose to deal with China rather than the US. India is probably a stronger space agency than Roscosmos at this point, but I don't see China and India teaming up on much of anything any time soon.
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Well, one has to have a chance to advance the "us against the world" propaganda by blaming "contract cancellations by unfriendly contacts" for the loss of funds without addressing that Russia brought such cancellations on themselves.
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China doesn't exactly have a good record with the quality of the things they make.
Not even space stuff.
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Crying Croc
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Depends? The British Empire in its heyday could (and did) sail into any waters to intimidate 'natives'. Our own America - the world's sole superpower today - has invaded nations at will (to defend world freedom, of course). Not too much consequences - except wearing ourselves out.
Problem with Russia is its insistence on behaving like a superpower when it clearly isn't one anymore.
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But I though the PPP was the best metric to measure prosperity? XDDD get rekt Orcs.
Wondering how pure and others are spinning the fact Kursk is being liberated by Ukraine. So much for "fierce retaliation". Guess you can't when your teenage conacripts all surrender and your death squads flee their posts. Just today Ukraine made a phone call and the Russian defense was convinced the Ukranians are wearing Russian uniforms XXXXDDDD it was a Orc massacre! By Orcs!
Just remember vatniks: this isn't even NATO lifting a finger yet. I mean, by Putins own logic, Belgorod and Kursk ARE Ukrainian territory after all. How about you lot return the borders to the ones you signed treaties for and forgo hopes of keeping the BSF? Call it good. Oh, and 30 years of military sanctions along with extensive government prerequisites to have the economic ones lifted? Kiss that pathetic Ruski Mir ideology goodbye.
Or you can try your luck with the various PMCs beginning to think Putin made a mistake invading Ukraine given NATO hasn't budged beyond picking up powerful members and Poland now rivaling Germany as a military powerhouse. Nevermind Russias best ally is now... North Korea and Iran? Yeah, Putin has done wonders for Russia groveling to tinpot dictators.
Good job Putin! Making Russia weak! All thanks to Putins policies and ideology, blaming "the west" for his utter failure.
Wondering how pure and others are spinning the fact Kursk is being liberated by Ukraine. So much for "fierce retaliation". Guess you can't when your teenage conacripts all surrender and your death squads flee their posts. Just today Ukraine made a phone call and the Russian defense was convinced the Ukranians are wearing Russian uniforms XXXXDDDD it was a Orc massacre! By Orcs!
Just remember vatniks: this isn't even NATO lifting a finger yet. I mean, by Putins own logic, Belgorod and Kursk ARE Ukrainian territory after all. How about you lot return the borders to the ones you signed treaties for and forgo hopes of keeping the BSF? Call it good. Oh, and 30 years of military sanctions along with extensive government prerequisites to have the economic ones lifted? Kiss that pathetic Ruski Mir ideology goodbye.
Or you can try your luck with the various PMCs beginning to think Putin made a mistake invading Ukraine given NATO hasn't budged beyond picking up powerful members and Poland now rivaling Germany as a military powerhouse. Nevermind Russias best ally is now... North Korea and Iran? Yeah, Putin has done wonders for Russia groveling to tinpot dictators.
Good job Putin! Making Russia weak! All thanks to Putins policies and ideology, blaming "the west" for his utter failure.
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I feel like "China only produces crap" is an increasingly myopic take. They're a far cry from parity with advanced western nations, but so was the United States in 1909.
From my understanding the modern Long March rockets have been very reliable, for example.
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Or that nearly 80pct of their funding goes to line pockets and corruption. For a long time in the US we were threatened when Putin launched some program with comparable funding to some of our advanced systems programs. When the result was... "oh... thats it?" Like the Felon, Belgorod and Armata, it was always baffling how little they got for the payment. Turns out, our corruption is around 15 to 20pct (pretty normal apparently) and thus the reason despite the cost insanity of the 35, we still got 35s in the end. Russia for a similar price, losing 80pct to Putins palace, only gets 12 armatas only slightly good at parading...
The reason the vatniks love their PPP is because it doesn't account for the rampant corruption or en's product. You can have a great PPP by forcing everyone to work, and not pay them.
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Which is ultimately a penny wise pound foolish approach. Space has been the defacto high ground since the cold war. If they impair their ability to regularly launch rockets they will have seceded a vitally important military field.
But I guess that what happens when you're gas station run by the mob with no thoughts beyond how much can I steal.
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Space is hard. Even the reliable Falcon had a less than successful launch just last month.
If you look at the Chinese space program in aggregate, it seems pretty good.
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It's no surprise that they put their space station in an orbit that the Russians can't launch to (easily, anyway).
Edit, ninja'd.
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Hey, look at the provided picture really fast.
That looks like Sauron holding a flaming sword. Or that Jesus statue in Brazil.
That looks like Sauron holding a flaming sword. Or that Jesus statue in Brazil.
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After the war is over, I look forward to a new and brilliant Ukrainian space program.
BTW, this filthy-mouthed grandmother:
x.com
is wrong. Tsiolkovsky, the father of modern rocketry, wasn't Ukrainian. But it's a good excuse to link to the video.
BTW, this filthy-mouthed grandmother:
x.com
x.com
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I kinda of feel that the "China only produces crap" echoes post-war "Japan only produces crap".
Production of crap is a reflection on a point in time. Given enough time and money, any country can go from "crap producer" to "world leader".
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Do you know of our almighty lord Sauron, patron of industry and progress? He gave his life to break the medieval stasis caused by the cursed Elves!
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